Quote by Gail Simone.
Credit goes to DCWKA/Sue’s post for this one.
You know, I’m kinda interested in her batting average on that.
Indeed, it has always been one of Diana’s main problems that quite unlike her fellow members of the Trinity — and pretty much every other non-villainous character — she’s rarely allowed to succeed at her core objective. Which isn’t maintaining the status quo but rather the exact opposite.
To this day I believe Gail made 2 fundamental mistakes in her run on Diana’s title by not having Diana be the one to find her exiled sisters — dear gods, if there was one storyline Diana should have owned, it was that. Instead, we have the whole stupid storyline with Beowulf I think? Then that failure is followed up by having Achilles seen to be blatantly more effective at ending armed conflicts than Diana. I’m certainly strruggling to remember any of Gail’s run where her quote above was put into effect.
What’s galled me for years though is that a single throw-away line in an earlier run gave Hippolyta-as-40s-Wonder-Woman a more enduring effect than Diana herself: she either directly founded or was the inspiration for founding a movement called the Wonder Scouts.
Just think about that for a moment. Scouts and their counterpart Guides have been around since before 1910. Wonder Poly basically impressed enough parents and their daughters that she was either able to operate as part of or successfully compete against the American body of a 30+ year old global movement.
Even if Diana never got to do anything as impressive as that, it’s still a victory for the legacy I guess, so of course it was never mentioned again outside that single montage.
Then there’s the issue of the Amazon womens’ shelters. They may have been mentioned before — I mean, they really are probably the single most obvious and logical way of having Diana and her sisters bring their message of loving support to the world — but the only time can recall them showing up was as part of the plot line where Granny Goddess has secretly replaced Athena and is using them as recruiting centres for new Furies. From memory, they didn’t even show up in Diana’s title, but rather the weekly lead up to Final Crisis.
And don’t get me started on the fact that Batman Inc — a hero inspiring people around the world to take up their mantle — should have been Diana’s story, not Bruce’s.
Good story, an embracing of the Greek mythology and history, and a Diana that is clearly her own agent. Amazons who are worthy of the name, not in the sense that they’ve amputated a breast, but in the sense that they are not-to-be-fucked-with. Little-to-no romance. A costume that makes more sense. An epic sword fight. A thematic core that addresses the questions of xenophobia v. inclusion, and nature v. nurture, and that takes the core feminism of the concept and instead of apologizing for it or avoiding it, embraces it as a given, so it is simply there, rather than being what it’s about.
Mostly, one that embraces the character rather than apologizes for her."
— Greg Rucka, on what he wants to see in a Wonder Woman movie (via thehappysorceress)
For an original graphic novel that has been in the preparation stages for years and is yet to have a solicit date, there have been lots of interviews. Last week artist Yanick Paquette gave a long interview about the book. And now Grant Morrison has given yet another interview about the book…
Grant Morrison: It’s not a comic about superheroes punching each other. It’s about the sexes and how we feel about one another, and what a society of women cut off from the rest of the world for 3,000 years might look like-
(Warning rant below and I get off topic)
Okay, okay stop. You know what? THIS is the last thing I want Wonder Woman to be about. The animated 2009 Wonder Woman was good but in retrospect so much of it makes my teeth grind, mostly because of Steve Trevor and this theme. This tumblr quote sums up my feelings nicely.
I don’t like how whenever Wonder Woman or other female heroes have a showcase it’s about reconciliation of the sexes; of women showing men they can fight/deserve respect. Of (and this is a little off topic) asshole men meeting a honest hardworking girl who teaches them to be less of an asshole (cough, Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Beauty and the Beast) You know what? Let’s not waste any time on men who don’t respect women - let’s not waste time on stories where women learn to forgive the asshole men and see past their flaws and then strangely fall in love with these butts (aint nothing wrong flawed characters but there is trend of a ‘good’ heroines ending up with distinctly jerky guys) - and that is what the Diana/Steve felt like in WW animated.
I don’t want to see anymore men are from mars women from venus, any girls vs boys, and no girls allowed themed stuff and then get told it’s feminist and about women (and those being the only stories ‘about women” that we get.
So many “girl power eps/showcases” are still in fact catered to men or written from a male POV. You want to show girl power? Don’t make a girl power ep but have women doing things in nearly every episode (cough A:TLA). You want to make a feminist telling of wonder woman? Don’t make about the sexes - make it about wonder woman and other women. Don’t write about reconciliation: It’s too close to an apology, too much about men, about how men feel about women and changing how they see women. Fuck that: the problem with this theme is that it’s always lady heroines who get saddled with it. Suddenly it is the job of women characters to appeal to men. Male lead stories don’t have to reconcile a damn thing to their female audiences- and I’m sick of my female leads having to ‘explain’ to men that they ain’t worthless.
A story does not have to about feminism to be feminist.
It can be about women, about female oppression, but what GM is talking about sounds dangerously close to “feminism for men” - about making Wonder Women palatable to men and making women “see” (inevitably, by the end of the story) that not all men are assholes or that, even if they are, you should try to see past their flaws and teach them to be, well, less of an asshole.
I am a teenage girl feminist Grant Morrison, and you don’t have me sold.
That bothered me so much about the Wonder Woman movie. There have been good comics and other cartoons with Steve Trevor. I don’t know why they had to make him such a jerkwad, and moreso, why in the world Diana fall for that jerkwad. I can see tolerating his presence for the sake of her mission, but not much more… just the fact that she had to tone down her feminism and meet the loudmouthed American guy halfway…. bleh bleh bleh. The movie would have been perfect if not for that fact. And then there’s everything that’s been done to her in the DCnU, having Superman teach her how to have a secret identity, have her falling all over him. And even in the old post-crisis 1980s Wonder Woman comics, which I liked in general, there was Heracles… who did terrible things to the Amazons which the Amazons also got punished for… having to wear the shackles on their wrists as a reminder for ever allowing themselves to be attacked by him… and then Diana had to rescue him from his prison so that they could forgive him (why? no) and he would only turn around and continue to be a sleeze in later comics. If men are utter assholes to women, how about they get no forgiveness or “understanding”.
We don’t need men to explain feminism to us. And the fact Morrison is mentioning pornography and Wonder Woman in the same sentence has me nervous as well.
That we’re not getting Wonder Woman written by Greg Rucka who treated the character with respect is a damn shame. Or here’s a crazy thought, let an actual woman write her (other than Gail Simone, whose run was a little silly for my tastes).
It strikes me that Gail Simone’s run wasn’t so much silly as deeply problematic because I think Jeanette’s contempt for Amazons speaks to Gail’s own feelings about them — Diana was rendered useless in resolving their exile, then oversaw their complete disenfranchiement and replacement by male counterparts under Zeus that resulted in their being ‘fixed’ by having a dual-sexed society forced upon them.
Having had such hopes, seeing what Gail did to them after everything Morrison’s Final Crisis had mandated was absolutely crushing. And now Morrison — self admittedly clueless about Diana to the point he utterly debased her as a mindless thrall of Darkseid while Bruce and Clark took all the glory and plots that should have been hers — has been given control over her.